Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 01, 2018, 10:04:30 am
I'm not sure if the brake issues and sway bar changes were on this car or not.
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Is the issue with the rack, as suggested?
Post by: Fierofool on January 01, 2018, 10:20:59 am
The rack is about the only thing that hasn't been replaced.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 01, 2018, 10:22:11 am
Post by: Fierofool on January 01, 2018, 10:40:40 am
The sway bar was mounted to the rear of the cradle. The white 86 in the background had a sway bar also but it was mounted at the front of the cradle. There was a vast difference in handling, so Lee removed my sway bar to see if that was the issue. It didn't help anything.
I had taken the car home and was gradually trying to diagnose the problem when I found that one of the new NAPA ball joints was coming apart. It might have had only a couple hundred miles on it at most. So it got replaced by a Dickman ball joint.
In the meantime, Lee had a falling out with the club and I couldn't get my sway bar back from him so I continued trying to find solutions to the handling. I sent the car over to AeroDonamic to have new control arm bushings and rear struts installed because we found the right rear strut was a piece of sponge.
I secured a sway bar and began the process of doing a front cradle mount on it and that's where my progress is at the moment. I know all the rear suspension is good. The front suspension would be the next suspect, but I don't know what part it would be. Memory tells me that the rack is the only thing that hasn't been replaced.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 01, 2018, 11:05:41 am
It would be interesting to see what happened with the rear end under some loads. For example, while the car is parked, push on each side above the rear tire. Then, park on an incline, apply the service brake, put the car in gear, and put it under a load. Have an observer watch the rear wheels. Next, test the rear suspension both with and without a load.
I'm trying to remember a thread I read about this, a while back. You can check the rack, easily enough, but I'd suspect the right rear. Probably an inner tie rod end.
AeroDon did put the hats on the rear struts, right?
I'm also curious about your cradle mount bushings and the transmission mounts.
You may have 2 issues. To me, the squirrely is in the rear. If the car is darty, that would be the front. My wife had in issue that cropped up after rotating the tires. I replaced the tires, and the issue went away. Being an '86, you could easily rotate the tires.
Post by: Fierofool on January 01, 2018, 01:32:08 pm
I haven't checked the rear inner tie rod bushings, but the tie rod ends have been replaced. There is no play in any of the wheels, top to bottom or front to rear, except at the front. The car exhibits the same tendencies that one of our previous cars had. Going into a curve it would take the intended line. If the curve was sharp, it would suddenly cut deeper into the curve, causing the rear to want to swing out. Turns out it was the ball joints on the front were worn.
We looked at the cradle mount bushings at Mike's shop and initially thought there was some room for play, though there wasn't any indication of movement. Upon later comparison with another Fiero, I saw that the spaces we saw were common.
I haven't checked the rack or it's coupling to the column because it's too low to get my jack underneath the front. And, I can't rotate the tires because it has staggered sizes. The front tires are 45 series and the rear are 40 series. The rear tire hardly clears the strut spring boss, so the taller 45 would rub.
It originally had Eibach springs on it, but those were removed and replaced with what was supposed to be stock springs, but the car rides very solid and stiffly. There's not much travel.
I have a set of Pacer 17" wheels and I've given thought to getting some used tires and changing out to some more standard size tires. Don had them on his 86 at one time.
I'm sure Don put the hats on the struts. There wasn't much difference in the ride other than the floppy right rear was gone after he installed the new ones.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 01, 2018, 01:54:47 pm
With those specs, the left rear tire will get a better bite in left turns, and is pointing to the right, which would steer you a bit to the right, although it shouldn't be more than an annoyance. The left caster would probably emphasize this, but still, it shouldn't be anything dramatic.
There must have been something that happened to the right rear that made it worse than the left side.
Post by: Fierofool on January 01, 2018, 02:53:44 pm
Immediately after another local tire store told me they couldn't align the rear without taking the rear wheels off, then if they took the wheels off, they couldn't attach the alignment devices, so bottom line, they couldn't align a Fiero without some special equipment that they didn't have. They also told me that my new adjustable front ball joints were bad and that my front tie rod ends and wheel bearings needed to be replaced. I drove straight over to Firestone and got an alignment. Handling did improve some, but still not up to par.
Post by: TopNotch on January 01, 2018, 03:11:30 pm
I'm guessing they were talking about the rear camber when they said they couldn't do it with the wheel on. Well, take the wheel off, change it, and put the wheel back on and measure. I actually did that on my yellow car.
Post by: Fierofool on January 01, 2018, 03:25:08 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 01, 2018, 05:39:47 pm
I'd still look at the rear end.
Post by: TopNotch on January 01, 2018, 08:59:46 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 01, 2018, 09:06:53 pm
Post by: Fierofool on January 01, 2018, 11:25:18 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2018, 11:39:02 am
Post by: Fierofool on April 28, 2018, 12:18:58 pm
The car is estremely smooth and handles well going down the interstate at 75-80 mph, as I did yesterday when I took one of the dogs to the vet, 30 miles away.
The sway bar isn't the cause. It reacts the same way with or without it.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2018, 03:01:44 pm
Post by: TopNotch on April 28, 2018, 04:05:40 pm
Post by: Fierofool on April 28, 2018, 05:30:56 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2018, 06:11:45 pm
I think I'm in the camp of checking everything, rather than throwing parts at it.
Post by: Fierofool on April 28, 2018, 07:33:46 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2018, 08:45:15 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on June 17, 2018, 09:51:18 am
Post by: Raydar on June 17, 2018, 12:37:30 pm
It occurs to me that, with the amount of leverage that it can impart, compared to the 88 setup, it's probably way too big.
Although (generally speaking) "too much bar" would tend to make the car tail happy, every other pre-88 that I've seen was done in a similar manner. (Front bar in the back. Larger than stock front bar.) So I don't know. Pure speculation and generalization.
I think Charlie said that it was still tail happy even without the rear bar, but I could be mistaken.
I would be tempted to do an 88 cradle swap and be done with it. :D
Almost everything he needs is up at Paul's. He'd still need a coilover kit and the adapter brackets.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on June 17, 2018, 01:09:58 pm
I am the worst possible person to be doing this, but I'm working on an article.
Post by: Fierofool on June 17, 2018, 01:12:33 pm
Can you email a link to that thread?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on June 17, 2018, 02:32:20 pm
I'll post it (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20110502-2-105612.html) here, too.
Applicable post, from DIY_Stu:
Quote
Rears will only fail like that if you installed a sway bar mounted to the lower arm. The rear lower arm doesn't support the weight of the car. it just locates the rear wheel in/out and fore/aft. The strut that's mounted to the top supports the car. This is also why the rear ball joints just clamp in, they aren't designed to have vertical pressure on them. When you install the sway bar and attach it to the lower arms on the 84 to 87 cars you open yourself up to this type of failure. The only rear ball joints I've ever heard of failing were on a sway bar added car. On the front the lower arm supports the weight that's why the ball joint fails. Other makers flip the ball joints over so when they wear the ball is pushed into the socket and not pulled out like on GM models.
Post by: TopNotch on June 17, 2018, 03:49:47 pm
Post by: Fierofool on September 30, 2018, 02:58:02 pm
This afternoon, I wondered if it was actually the grill or something in the suspension that I was hearing as I recently had occasion to drive across a small area of a dirt driveway. Creep along in first gear. The rattle was very pronounced. The speed or severity of the surface wasn't enough to make the grill rattle. So, when I came home from Church this afternoon, I decided to check the top end of the strut tower.
There are 3 studs in the top of the tower, plus the top of the strut itself. All have nuts that help to hold the strut in place.
I discovered that the 3 nuts that hold the studs were terribly loose. One of them so loose that it had actually dome some minoir damage to its contact area, due to apparent movement.
After tightening these 3 nuts, I replaced the vent grill and took the car for a drive. No more rattle. Feeling that I might have found the cause of the poor handling, I cautiously took a couple of sharp curves at the posted speed limit of 45 mph. There was no tendency to oversteer on a right hand curve. But the left hand curves were the ones that were the most problems, so I came back through the same curves at 45 mph. Still no tendency to oversteer. Previously, I couldn't take these curves at the posted speed limit.
This may not be the total fix, but I suspect that the top end of the strut was never fully tightened for whatever reason. As I get a little more bold, I'll increase my speed a little at a time to see if the handling is improved through a range of speeds.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on September 30, 2018, 04:01:21 pm
Post by: Fierofool on October 03, 2018, 02:13:56 pm
The second shop that put it on the rack told me that all the ball joints and tie rods that had about a couple hundred miles on them had to be replaced. And here, I thought Rodney made the best parts. Needless to say, I didn't trust their diagnostics and was suspicious of their abilities.
I left that shop and drive directly up to Firestone. Though they had a lot of red showing in the specs, at least the car would track straight on a good road. The steering wheel was a little off center and you know what kind of handling I was getting, but it was an improvement over the first alignment it got.
Today, I visited Northlake Automotive. The tech put it on the rack and he and Michael delved into it. They found that it needs the upper inner arm bolt and shims replaced in order to bring the front camber into good numbers, and maybe rotate the front Rodney Dickman ball joints.
The rear originally was showing the right rear camber to be within range. On the front, only the left front camber was within range. When I left, Only the left front caster and the right front camber and caster are out of range. Everything else, front and rear is within range.
During my test drive around the area of Northlake, I noticed that the car still tracked well. The steering didn't feel as loose. The rear felt solidly planted to the pavement as I whipped it side to side. When coming out of a side street at a traffic light, I gave it a good whip to the left as I rounded the corner. No tendency to come around. It's not 100% but now I feel the car is safe enough that someone else can drive it under normal conditions.
On my way home, I gave it a little tryout on some of the local roads. I'm happy to say that I think I just might take it on a Rerun For The Hills, should we get enough persons interested.
Thank you, Mike and your alignment tech. Sorry, my invoice doesn't show his name.
Post by: Raydar on October 03, 2018, 02:28:11 pm
Never would have thought that those fasteners would have made that much of a difference but, obviously, I would have been wrong. :D
Kudos to Mike and his tech!
Post by: Fierofool on October 03, 2018, 04:00:52 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 03, 2018, 05:46:06 pm
I have a suspicion that, when you drove it between shops, things would move a bit, resulting in different readings.
Post by: Fierofool on October 28, 2018, 07:54:33 pm
A very wet day. Lots of leaves and occasional dirt on the road. Old tires that are nearing the end of their tread life. I only had 2 little bobbles and that was due to the aforementioned leaves and dirt. Others said they had the same result at various points.
The car stuck to the curves very well. It felt very solid. Most of the time, I kept up with the 85GT ahead of me, being that both were of the same body and power. Once the loose strut was tightened and a good Northlake Automotive alignment was done, I feel it's safe to drive again. Thanks MikeMack.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 28, 2018, 10:08:45 pm
Post by: PK on October 29, 2018, 07:31:47 am
Post by: GTRS Fiero on November 12, 2018, 09:20:33 pm
Post by: Fierofool on November 12, 2018, 10:08:32 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on November 12, 2018, 10:12:52 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 04, 2019, 10:42:24 pm
Post by: Fierofool on January 04, 2019, 10:50:25 pm
When we did the RFTH rerun, it handled very well. Never gave me any reason to be concerned.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 04, 2019, 10:57:39 pm
Post by: Fierofool on March 23, 2019, 12:15:57 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 23, 2019, 12:18:45 pm
Don't leave the Fiero under that tree. Those blossoms will be a pain to clean out, later.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 20, 2019, 01:34:26 pm
I was under the impression that those vent screws were only used on the '84, but went to the flip style by '85.
Post by: Fierofool on April 20, 2019, 07:07:00 pm
The Fastbacks had a flip wing screw on the right and a slotted screw on the left. I've collected the two style wing screws whenever I found them in the parts yards. This car has one of each on each side.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 22, 2019, 06:07:45 pm
I'm having a hard time rectifying these specs to these:
http://www.gafieroclu .org/bbs/index.php?topic=1131
Post by: Fierofool on April 22, 2019, 10:04:17 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 22, 2019, 10:06:12 pm
Yeah, I think that was at Master Tech and it was supposed to be in alignment. Or as close as they claimed they could get it.
It shows Firestone.
Post by: Fierofool on April 22, 2019, 11:15:14 pm