Georgia Fiero Club Forum
All Things Fiero => General Fiero Discussion => Topic started by: RobsFieros on January 12, 2009, 08:22:33 am
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Ok, I know this isn't really a swap but then again it is. We're swapping one 3800 for another. The one we're pulling out has 340 hp and the one we're installing has 240 hp. Then we're going to install the 340 hp engine in an 87 Fiero GT. This is the 97 3800 SC with only 240 hp...
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Update he's decide to install it in his 88 Formula and build the second one for the 87 GT.
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rob how did that 3800sc get up to 340hp? and where are these motors coming from and how much are you having to give for them normally. the reason i ask is i have one kind of staked out. a 96 series II from a riviera. the motors runs , it makes a little bit of a rattling noise that the j-yard owner says is a bearing in the supercharger. for a complete drop out minus the trans and axles , thats the motor,cradle,harness,computor,and any other parts i need pertaining to the drive train is $300.00. do you do anything to the motors before you swap them in or do you just put them in and drive them until something breaks and you have to rebuilt them? how do you know whether to take a chance on a motor or not? i'd kind of like to get this motor and put it in the corner until i have some money to do the swap. man i sure wish we lived closer together i could definitely use some hands on experience. i've got more time now i got cut back to 3 days a week.
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$300 is a good price...but there's a bunch of modifying to do to get the engine in and mounted to the tranny and cradle, mounts to be fabbed. You'll have to build your wiring harness and move the alternator, get rid of the p.s. pump, install an idler pully in its place build an exhaust system, modify your heater hose connections, cables, make brackets from scratch. There's a lot to do, it's not a direct bolt up. Then you have to get somebody to tune or flash your computer or it won't run.
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I set the 3800 SC in the 88 cradle today and now it's time to start making mounts. I also moved the alternator down where the power steering pump was, the top alternator bolt was a direct bolt up except for having to grind off a little to line up the belt. I'm taking off tomorrow to get some much needed rest.
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Thanks for the links Charlie. They were very useful.
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Derek and his dad Rick came down today and finished swaping the wiring harness's in the Grand Prix, then they started working on designing mounts for the Fiero 3800 swap. Derek's coming back down tomorrow and we're going to see if we can get the engine mounted to the cradle.
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Ok we got the alternator moved down and the dog bone mount made and a belt tensioner mounted, then installed the belt.
Next is the engine mounts then we can start on the wiring before mounting it in the car.
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I think we've already figured out 3 engine mounts, we've just got to fit the assembly in the cradle to see if they'll work.
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Any chance you could do this same swap on my '86 Fiero? Maybe with a 3800SC Series 3 (260 hp?)? I'd like to keep the 4-speed manual, possibly swapping a couple gears. Could you send me a PM?
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Derek's working on the harness tonight and he's bringing his Formula down tomorrow so we can use his cradle since mine is twisted and nothings lining up. We should have the swap in the car by Monday evening. Then we can finish the wiring and hoses.
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The tensioner and dog bone mount are being redone at a machine shop and he's also redoing the mounts the way we want them and the thermostat housing. Derek's bringing the finished wiring harness, axles, and oil filter adapter Wednesday. So if we don't get done with it by Friday then we'll probably get done with it by the following Monday.
Then I can start on the 2 87's in Erwin. Shouldn't take as long the second time.
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what trany are you going to be using?
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Hey Scott, we're using the tanny from the 3800SC Grand Prix donor. I think its a 4T65E-HD.
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It is a 4t65e-HD and it also has a shift improver kit. Great tranny for any 3800 swap by the way. NA or SC
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There's nothing like a good strong work bench to help things go smoother.
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Yeah, this project is really coming together. Ill be bringing the disassembled harness with me thursday.
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Brad got all the mounts made today then he took them home with him to clean them up nd make a few minor adjustments. He's bringing back the final product for installation on Derek's setup. He made 7 mounts: 1 in the front of the engine below the balancer, 1 on the right side below the alternator, 1 behind the a/c compressr, 1 on the bell housing near the starter, 1 at the end of the trans., 1 on the other side of the bell housing just below the shift linkage, and then the dogbone and tensioner. I don't think the engines going anywhere. He's also redoing my alternator bracket. He's bringing everything back Saturday, then he's going to modify the Fiero thermostat housing to work on the 3800.
Brad at work.
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Rob, once you get your business up and running, if you do a website for it, I'll give you a link on the club's link page (http://gafiero.org/links.shtml).
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That's great, thanks Pat.
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It looks like maybe one more day on the wiring harness and we can sit the engine back on the cradle with the new mounts. Then it'll be ready to go to the muffler shop for headers and a true dual exhaust system. I've already installed the new high volumn fuel pump.
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That car is going to be beast.
Cant wait to see it run. You will have to post a video.
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I got a better ideal how about I get you a ride in it?
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oo oo oo me next!!!
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The man that owns the car, an 88 Formula, is bringing it down to be in the St. Patty's Day Parade. We'll be going to the resturants afterwards with everybody else. So you'll have to come and check it out and maybe he'll take people for rides.
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I'm starting an 87 GT 3800SC 5 speed swap in 2 weeks. As a matter of fact I've got 3 87 GT's to do.
And I found out yesterday that we can't do the true duals without removing part of the trunk and we're not going to do that. So we'll just be doing the 1 in and 2 out flowmaster in 3" pipe. But the headers are still figured in the swap.
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It should smoke the tires at 30 mph or better.
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I got the mounts installed and then installed the cradle assembly in the car. There didn't appear to be any clearance problems. Tomorrow I'll start hooking a few things up, then start building the axles and have them ready to go in when the cradle bushings come in. I'm getting the fuel lines and a/c lines made this weekend and picking up the hoses. Then it'll be off to the muffler shop.
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I cant wait to drive this thing. Ill be glad to have it on the road and not to mention, wiring this car has made me appreciate just how intricate the wiring is on one of these little engines. Im excited!
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The wiring is done except for putting wire loom on. The rear suspension bushings have all been replaced. Picked up the new fuel lines today and started on the axles. We should have it running in about 3 working days. Now as to when we'll get to work on it again, probably Monday.
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If we could have another day like we did today, the car will be ready for the muffler shop.
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Almost finished....
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We've got the wiring done, fuel lines done, mounts done, axles in, rear suspension poly bushings installed, engine leveled up, and we cranked it over today. You can hear the fuel pump just like with the Fiero 2.8. The computer and the OBDII conector are in place where the Fiero parts were. The fuel filter is mounted on the back wall next to the trunk above the alternator.
We don't have the coil packs mounted or the plug wires on, the shift linkage still needs a pivot mount installed, we've still got to switch to a 4 cylinder throttle cable, and hook up the tranny lines and coolant hoses, then that should be about it.
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I got the coil packs mounted on the opposite side of the SC snout, and got the shift linkage reversed. I just got to modify the bracket for the cable and remove the exhaust manifolds to get ready for the headers. Today I'll install the new spark plugs and wires, the tranny lines, coolant hoses, and throttle cable and it should be ready for the trip to the muffler shop.
Charlie you ready for your 3800 Series II swap?
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We went to load the car and take it to the muffler shop last night and the plug for the lights on the tow dolly didn't fit the truck. So it's not leaving for the muffler shop until Monday.
It's not running yet. We can't start it without the exhaust. Plus we're going to have to raise the engine another 1/2 inch so the belt will clear the cradle between the balancer and compressor. The coil packs hit the hood when we finally put it back on so we've got to move it somewhere else. But other than that it's ready.
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It's gone to the muffler shop and should be back Friday. We've still got a lot of little things to do to finish it up, but it will be ready for the parade.
I received a phone all from a man in Atlanta who drives a kit car that's going to be at the Diner after the parade. He's looking for a low mileage motor to go in one of his cars.
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Dereks Formula is back at the shop now and has the new headers and exhaust system. We're going to try and finish it up in the next few days so he can get some driving time on the car before the parade.
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(http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/RobsFieros/?action=view¤t=100_2959.flv)
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GIGGITY!!!!
i got a buck sixty( actualy it's $150, i owe charles a 10) let's make my car sound like that
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Rob, once you get your business up and running, if you do a website for it, I'll give you a link on the club's link page (http://gafiero.org/links.shtml).
RobsFieros 3800SC & NA Swaps
http://www.geocities.com/robsfieros/mybusiness.html
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I don't want to sound overly critical, but your web page leaves a LOT of questions unanswered. Does the price include the 3800 engine? What is the source of the engine (crate or junked car)? If it includes the engine, what is your price for someone providing their own engine? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Well the price includes a low mileage junk yard engine. If you furnish your own engine you'll save $1500.00.
The website is a work in progress. Let me know if you think of something else.
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We took our first test drive today. When we backed it out of the shop, it blew a tranny hose off, so we had fluid all over everything. So this time we double clamped it and it held. We did a few bun outs in the parking lot and in the parking lot at the auto parts. We tested the super charger out on the highway and it's wicked to say the least. When we got back to the shop Rick did another burn out and broke the dogbone mount. So it's back to fabricating, to build something stronger.
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Well, your price is a lot cheaper than FastFieros (if they are even doing them these days). Maybe you should put the word out on Pennock's.
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I will just as soon as I fugure out how to build my website. This new site I'm useing just doesn't want to cooperate. I've got 2 page designed but it's keeping the as 2 different sites. I need to find somebody to build my website for me....hint hint hint
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http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/RobsFieros/?action=view¤t=100_2960.flv
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I need to find somebody to build my website for me....hint hint hint
PM sent.
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Thanks Pat, but I think I finally got it.
http://www.geocities.com/robsfieros/RobsFierosBusiness.html
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If you change the name of your html file from mybusiness.html to index.html, then your URL shortens to http://www.geocities.com/robsfieros/, because index.html is a default and does not have to be specified.
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I just checked and a new Crate Motor will cost $3000. And it comes without brackets, alternator, A/C compressor, idlers, belt tensioners, any of the needed accessories.
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I got the new dog bone made and it's mounted. We had a small set back today but we should have it worked out and repaired by Monday, if the rear deck lid is painted by then. We had an electrical short and the wires caught fire.
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Everything is waiting on the wiring harness, then it's ready to go again.
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That's one HOT Fiero!!! I heard rumors about fires but never believed it till now!
I'm hoping to do this someday to My 86 GT!(Not the fire part!!! the 3800S/C!)
I look forward to Your posts daily!
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Here's what the valve covers look like now.
And the car cleaned up real nice.
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Looks like it will be finished by Friday, but since we won't be able to drive it for a few days, we're not bringing it to the parade. We will bring in down in a couple of weeks.
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We finished it up Friday except fo still waiting on the decklid to come back from the paint shop. It's not running in limp mode this time and after driving it there's no trouble codes. Trans is working great, engines running cool, good oil pressure, and the only problem I've seen is the tires sure do wear out quicker.
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Derek drove it back to Erwin, Tennessee today. He named it the SS Enterprise, it has warp speed now at 340hp.
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Derek just called and said he's only burnt 1/4 tank of gas in 150 miles.
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WOW! thats almost an entire tank for me
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My 86 GT will burn 1/2 a tank in 150 miles. With the check engine light on.
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actualy mine did a little this last tank, i got 19mpg.
sorry for the thread jacking, back on subject. amazing job rob
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You didn't jack my thread. I was talking about gas mileage and so were you.
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Derek said he can go from 0 to 100 in 8 seconds. I think I'm going to have to build me one of those.
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It's back at the shop again. Derek is like Tim the tool man Taylor, he wants more hp, so we're tearing it down to install an intercooler and do a few upgrades and shoot for 400 hp.
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must be nice. good luck with it
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Hey Rob,
I have a few questions. I have a N/A 3800 in my car now, but i can not get it to run right. Its idle is spuratic (sp) it revs up and down. My friend did the wiring for me so my first guess is something is mixed up. I was wondering how hard it would be to troubleshoot my harness to make sure everything checks out. Its running obd II. I really need to get this fixed up because this is my daily driver and i can't drive it like i want to because of the wiring. Too much open throttle sometimes kills the engine. Please let me know what you think. I live in Auburn, AL but i will be home in Atlanta for the summer and wouldnt mind driving to your shop if you can check it out or maybe at a GA Fiero meeting.
Thanks Austin
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Who programmed your computer? That might be all your problem is. When you install these motors and harness's you need to get the correct programming. You can delete a bunch of settings that you won't be useing in the Fiero because it doesn't have the sensor. If you don't delete them or atleast set the limits too high for it to ever reach it, then the computer is searching for the imput and will keep adjusting the settings trying to find it. Does this make sense??? I almost lost myself.
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Yeah i understand exactly what you are saying. Its been programmed twice. Once by Fast Fieros and another by a race shop. I think it has something to do with the computer and harness. My temp light is also on but my car doesn't run hot and the check engine light comes on then sometimes goes off. I just need someone who knows what there doing when it comes to computers and wiring because that area is not my strong suit. haha.
Austin
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Let me know ahead of time when you can come up and I'll get my wiring and computer man to meet you here.
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Thanks. I will let you know it will probably be the second or so week of May because that's when i will be coming home from school for the summer.
Thanks again, Austin
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May 15, 16, 17 we'll be in South Carolina at the Fiero Clubs Gathering.
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Link and website updated... http://www.geocities.com/robsfieros/RobsFierosBusiness.html
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Starting another 3800SC swap into another 88 coupe 5 speed.
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read in the paper down here theres a recall for 3800n/a motors for 1997 to 2003 models for a fire potentional. don't know heard of it or care. oldone in c'ville
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I saw it on Pennocks last week. Hard braking causes oil to run out of the leaky valve cover gaskets onto the manifold. The oil could ignite into a small fire and cause the plastic channel that the spark plug wires run through to ignite and cause a major fire in the engine compartment. The solution is to remove the plastic channel that the spark plug wires run through.
My question is: If the leaky valve cover gaskets are the culprit, why remove the spark plug wire channels? Because it's cheaper, and if you later have a fire, they can blame it on something else, because they've already fixed the problem.
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We remove that part and switch the valve covers and install new gaskets while their off.
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One of the problems with oil leaks on these engines is people dont often service the PCV valve. This causes ALOT of backpressure in the engine and makes the valve covers literally lift off the head. This blows oil directly on the header or manifold. Lots of Fiero 3800 SC guys wanna fudge the Boost Controller. This is NOT a good idea and I know everyone has their own version and blah blah blah, bottom line is, the thing was put on there for a purpose. It helps to control boost when youre cruisen around and after building boost and you let off the gas, it controlls how much boost is being allowed in the manifold. So its not just wide open boost or no boost. Its not difficult to leave the thing on there and its litterally 2 wires and a vacuum line. All of this can contribute to leaky valve covers.
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The SC engines aren't affected. It's the NA engines that have the problem. The Tech Bulletin says that under hard braking conditions, oil may leak onto the front manifold. Most likely it's the oil that puddles along the front trough of the head on its way to the oil return passages.
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that's why Ilike the little 2.5! :D
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lol easy enough solution, get rid of the NA. ;D eh if you watch your valve covers and check under your hood every so often, shouldnt be an issue, chances are, LONG befor it catches fire, it will probably smoke a little bit.
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Rob,
If i were to drive my fiero up to your shop this week do you think we could get my ac working? The only reason i ask is im not looking forward to the 6 and a half hour drive to myrtle beach without any ac. Haha.
Austin
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Bring it on up. I have to mow this morning but I should be at the shop by 12, beside Derek and Rick are there working on getting his 3800SC rebuilt and installed before Thursday. Call me 423-506-0594
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Look what I got, and it has "ICE COLD" air.
Austin, your cars ready.
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It's ready to go back in the car and make the trip to Myrtle Beach.
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(http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/RobsFieros/?action=view¤t=3800SCRunning2.flv)
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I know all of you probably already know, but Austin has done an OUTSTANDING job on his 88 TTop. Seriously this is one of the best lookin Fieros Ive seen. Thumbs up man! I am lookin forward to having a nice sounding stereo in my formula. lol
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Link and website updated... http://www.geocities.com/robsfieros/RobsFierosBusiness.html
Pat you might as well remove my link. I just found out Yahoo is going to discontinue their web pages. They sent me a notice that it will be gone before the end of the year. I am working on another site and it should be up and running in a month or so. I'm getting Dexter Dog Designs to build me a website.
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I'll keep it up for now and switch when your new one is ready.
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I'm getting ready to install a 3800na in the 88 2.5 5 speed coupe that I've changed to an SE. I'll keep posting on the swap. When I get the car done it will be for sale.
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Derek's new rebuilt 3800SC 370hp...
http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/RobsFieros/?action=view¤t=Derekscar.flv