Post by: Fierofool on March 28, 2017, 07:42:06 pm
I found out that if you have a 60* V6 engine, you must use an neutrally balanced harmonic balancer. Thanks, TopNotch That means that it can be a Fiero or early 80's 2.8 harmonic balancer, like from the Camaro, El Camino, or Citation, Beretta, J6000, Cavalier V6, S10 or S15 or equivalent. With any of these substitutes, you will need to have new timing marks cut.
Again, you must have new timing marks cut for these balancers. Finding someone who can properly cut the timing mark for use in a Fiero can be nearly impossible. Not totally, but nearly impossible.
I've consulted two automotive machine shops and neither had any idea of where the timing mark should be, nor had any idea of how to find out. One shop said that if they had the old balancer, they could bolt it to the new one and transcribe the mark. All well and good if your old ring hasn't slipped, but do you know it hasn't after 25-30 years? Don't take the chance.
I spoke with Raydar about the balancers, and he gave me a link to a place in California named Damper Doctors. It's a large company and well respected by many on Pennocks. They will sell you a balancer, or rebuild yours. So, I gave them a call.
I explained that Drewbdo had purchased a 3.4 balancer from Summit and we needed some information on what degree off the keyway center to have a local machinist cut the timing mark. About an hour later, a tech called back and said they didn't know. They use a fixture to rebuild them, but they don't know how many degrees off the keyway center.
I told the local machine shop that I was trying to find a stock balancer for him to use as a template and he suggested I call another company in California with a similar name as Damper Doctors. They are the DAMPER DUDES. 530-365-2144
So, I gave them a call. The man who answered listened to what we were doing and the information we needed. He walked somewhere in the shop or warehouse, said he had a Fiero balancer in his hand, and in a half minute gave me the information we needed. He understood the positioning of non-Fiero 60* V6 timing marks and was aware that the Fiero mark was common only to the Fiero. He admitted he didn't know what the other two smaller marks were for.
So, there are 4 messages I want to convey in this post,.
1. Order a rebuilt or new balancer from either Damper Doctors, 530-246-2984 or Damper Dudes, 530-365-2144. You won't have to have new timing marks cut.
2. Use a neutrally balanced balancer for 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 and all 60* V6 engines.
3. Something I learned today. Mark your pulley in reference to the keyway before removing it from the balancer. It must go back in the same position to maintain proper balance. This is per balancer manufacturers. (Honestly, I don't see this as a problem because there are no signs of weights added or metal removed to balance the pulley.)
4. The center of the timing mark for the Fiero is approx 5-7* counter-clockwise from the centerline of the keyway[/b]. This variance may be the reason some cars run better at 8* BTDC and others at 12* BTDC.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 28, 2017, 07:49:37 pm
It never occurred to me to replace this.
Post by: TopNotch on March 28, 2017, 10:30:41 pm
Post by: Fierofool on March 29, 2017, 12:12:27 am
From the GM 60 Degree V6 Power Manual....
Thank you for the correction.
Tshark, if the balancer is being replaced as a normal part of your project, don't take a chance with transferring the mark from the old one to the new one. Have a machine shop use the proper degree wheel to locate the new mark. That's just in the event that the old one has slipped, then your new one would be wrong, too. You might do just as well to have the old one rebuilt. In the long run it would be cheaper than the cost of a new one and the machine shop cost of cutting a new timing mark.
The Fiero timing is set at 10*, but the keyway is not at the 12 o'clock position when the timing mark is at TDC, so don't have the mark cut at 10* counterclockwise of the keyway.
Post by: TopNotch on March 29, 2017, 07:41:42 am
Post by: Drewbdo on March 29, 2017, 02:19:47 pm
Post by: TopNotch on March 29, 2017, 03:58:12 pm
So, is a "torsional damper" the same thing as a "harmonic balancer"?
Yes.
Post by: Raydar on March 29, 2017, 05:48:23 pm
As soon as I find my 22P (how does one lose a 25lb book the size of a toaster oven?) I'll look them up.
Post by: Fierofool on March 30, 2017, 12:12:15 am
Post by: Raydar on March 30, 2017, 12:06:27 pm