Post by: The Art Doctor on December 26, 2019, 04:19:51 pm
Still miss that car.
I'm looking for the right Fiero and am in no particular hurry. I do not need a project, just looking for a well sorted 1988 notchback v6 car. Modified is Ok but I would prefer stock. I already have a 1947 Chevrolet Coupe that I have had over 20 years (216 straight 6 modified with two carbs, mustang II suspension and a 5 speed). A "derelict" 1956 Pontiac 2dr wagon with rebuilt original 316 automatic and custom disc brakes that is used to haul my 1952 Feather Craft Deluxe Runnabout with a 1956 Johnson 30hp. A long term project 1940 Ford coupe that is blown apart and slowly being welded back together. And last a 1981 Yamaha xs650 custom hard-tail bobber
I live in Chamblee and I work in fine art conservation/restoration thus the screen name. If your curious about what I do you can check out my work at www.savantandshutts.com
Looking forward to meeting up with some of this crew at the Galaxy.
Larry
Post by: GTRS Fiero on December 26, 2019, 05:44:01 pm
If you can, please join the club for the Polar Bear Run, this Saturday.
Your wife does sound like a keeper! You're lucky to have her. By all means, bring her along.
As you know, with any car of tjis age, there can be unexpected problems. You have the first key: being patient. Are you willing to drive a distance to get a good Fiero, or must it be "local"?
Just FYI, a Fiero as you described may be in the $5-6K range, depending on options and mileage. If you are good with that range, there are possibilities.
Post by: Fierofool on December 26, 2019, 05:45:23 pm
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/870363153364053/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/811647155959036/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/471453886990475/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/811647155959036/
Welcome
Charlie
Post by: The Art Doctor on December 26, 2019, 07:36:35 pm
I will definitely see everyone at the Galaxy, I'm not too far away and have made notes of the dates on the calendar. I happen to go there once a month already for the Early Ford V8 Club RG24 board of directors meetings, so I know the menu well. It will be nice to have a different daily special. I have been going monthly only on Tuesday's for several years so same taco salad, chimichangas and turkey and dressing specials every time.......
I did notice that white Formula in Savannah, very tempting but not sure I am a glass roof/t-tops kind of guy. I did have a 911 with a metal sunroof that was nice to have as when it was closed you blocked out the sun. We go to Savannah once a year around February to look after artwork at the Telfair Museum. If it happens to still be there Ill go and see it. The automatic is kind of a slight bonus. I remember that my big size 13's were kind of tight in that small foot well. I recall hitting the break several times accidentally with the side of my foot while depressing the clutch. This is something I will have to drive and see if I like.
Black, white or silver first. Red distant second, yellow way down the list. Custom color Ok if palatable. I have painted a few cars over the years and would not mind doing some repairs/touch-ups but I need to stay away from starting another project to do a color change.
I really like the '88's nose. I can tolerate the '84's but do not so much like the mid-years noses. Never liked the look of the GT with the sail panels. These are purely personal aesthetic considerations, nothing more. There are a few custom noses/body kits I have seen over the years that are OKish, but id prefer a factory '88 skin. Is it possible to put an '88 nose on an earlier car?
I have only recently been watching sales/auctions on eBay and the listings on Facebook marketplace which seems to have replaced CL as the go to place for private vehicles sales listings. I have been restricting them to 88's thus far. There is a Formula in AZ on eBay that looks like many others but is a 5-speed and red. Chatted with the owner on email. He is upper 70's, his 8th Formula and just cannot get in and out. Ohio originally, low miles so probably stored winters in AZ now via CO. Its a $5K now, but frankly its too far away to be realistic. I figure I should be able to find one from NC, TN, SC, GA, AL or MS avoiding FL salt air. I haven't really set a budget yet, I think $4000 would be easy OK with the Boss Lady and $6000 would have me selling something I already own or sleeping on the couch or both. The longer I wait the more I can sock away in the Mad Money fund.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on December 26, 2019, 07:52:12 pm
The trim on the '88 is smooth, whereas the trim on the previous year notchbacks is grooved.
Post by: Fierofool on December 26, 2019, 09:18:38 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on December 26, 2019, 09:20:44 pm
Post by: Fierofool on December 26, 2019, 09:39:12 pm
Post by: Raydar on December 26, 2019, 10:55:15 pm
This is a search for 88s that I built in Craigslist, that will search Atlanta and some neighboring cities and states.
Link (https://atlanta.craigslist.org/search/cta?searchNearby=1&nearbyArea=637&nearbyArea=171&nearbyArea=258&nearbyArea=372&nearbyArea=256&nearbyArea=127&nearbyArea=446&nearbyArea=41&nearbyArea=220&nearbyArea=101&nearbyArea=343&nearbyArea=670&nearbyArea=467&nearbyArea=560&nearbyArea=559&nearbyArea=253&nearbyArea=462&nearbyArea=353&nearbyArea=231&nearbyArea=202&nearbyArea=257&nearbyArea=207&nearbyArea=32&nearbyArea=636&nearbyArea=205&nearbyArea=635&nearbyArea=186&nearbyArea=323&nearbyArea=371&nearbyArea=427&query=fiero+1988)
There aren't very many, just now.
Post by: NoMad on December 26, 2019, 11:01:35 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on December 26, 2019, 11:05:13 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on December 27, 2019, 12:15:10 am
On your fastback?
Thanks, nice to know the option is out there.
I really have enough toys so I hope to hold off the "I want it nows'" long enough to find the reliving the dream '88 Formula in Black with a solid roof. If it costs a few extra bucks and I have to let something go, so be it, it will be worth it.
Now that 5-speed vs Auto thing is still to be settled. We have been a one "normal car" family with the toys acting as second+ cars forever. I have had a stick car as a daily for over 20 years until two years ago we added a VW Golf with a 6 speed auto when our SRT-4 5 speed stick car got totaled. I do not have a "commute" but having the auto in Atlanta traffic has proven "better" than the previous 5-speed as a city grind commuter. I do not intend to commute in it but will drive it most days as my #1, trading off with the '47 which is what I usually drive, while the wife takes the WV. Opinions?
Post by: Raydar on December 27, 2019, 06:50:32 pm
...
Now that 5-speed vs Auto thing is still to be settled. We have been a one "normal car" family with the toys acting as second+ cars forever. I have had a stick car as a daily for over 20 years until two years ago we added a VW Golf with a 6 speed auto when our SRT-4 5 speed stick car got totaled. I do not have a "commute" but having the auto in Atlanta traffic has proven "better" than the previous 5-speed as a city grind commuter. I do not intend to commute in it but will drive it most days as my #1, trading off with the '47 which is what I usually drive, while the wife takes the WV. Opinions?
Regarding "daily drivers"...
Several years ago, I would have been all over a manual. Automatics were just... meh.
But some of the newer automatics are quite intuitive. My '10 G6 GT has a 3.5, and the usual GM 4 speed automatic. But the programming is quite nice.
If you pull it down into "3" instead of "D" it becomes the perfect commuter trans. It holds 2nd gear until 45 MPH, no matter what the throttle position. If you're slowing down, it shifts down into 2nd as soon as you hit 35 MPH. Might be difficult to picture, but it's perfect for stop and go traffic.
My most recent purchase, a 2019 Ram pickup, is even more intuitive. If you are slowing down at more than the usual pace, it will downshift - and keep on downshifting - until you don't need it to any more.
But yeah, this is about Fieros. The Fiero automatic is... okay. But not stellar.
I would be inclined to buy a manual, or swap in a newer powertrain with a 4 speed (or even a 6 speed) automatic. But then, I'm that person who can't leave anything alone.
I'll keep my eyes peeled, for you.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on December 27, 2019, 09:37:14 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on December 28, 2019, 12:42:36 am
Been watching some Youtube videos of Fieros recently lots of "interesting" stuff out there. My tween kids are big into Youtube but I hardly can stand it most of the time, too much like side show barkers to me. But I have come across some good ones. I liked this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp8G-6JZIp0
Post by: scottb on December 28, 2019, 05:32:56 am
Post by: GTRS Fiero on December 29, 2019, 12:56:37 pm
They will interchange, too. Some things require other parts be swapped also in order to make things match, like panels with ribbed or smooth molding, fastback along with decklid, vents and tail lights.
This is why I had thought there were issues with the '84 door skins.
http://www.gafiero.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3870.0
Post by: Fierofool on January 02, 2020, 03:30:48 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 02, 2020, 07:00:02 pm
Post by: Fierofool on January 02, 2020, 07:33:54 pm
Post by: TopNotch on January 02, 2020, 08:47:06 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 16, 2020, 09:14:18 am
Since I have pretty much decided that only an '88 Formula will do I think I may be behind in the numbers game. 5400+ made and my lack of desire of the nearly 50% of production that are red and yellow units leaves me with about 2600 manufactured cars. Subtract 35 years of attrition, poorly modified, wrecked, rusted, beat to heck ect, I probably am looking to find one in 1000 (does this sound realistic). How picky should I be, how many will come along each year?
I certainly know the general inspection routine I would do on a typical used car but not sure of Fiero specific issues. Things like unobtainable parts to make sure they are serviceable, areas prone to cracks, known issues with anything. Is there a good thread either on here or PFF about what to look for specifically when doing an inspection for possible purchase? If is a one in 1000 car, how picky should I be on a $3000 purchase?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 16, 2020, 09:18:18 am
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 16, 2020, 02:47:21 pm
Most folks wont allow you to start tearing things apart doing a leak-down or compression test but one thing I always do is to stick a finger in the tail pipe. If it comes out a greasy oily mess...move along.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 16, 2020, 05:48:54 pm
Post by: Fierofool on January 16, 2020, 06:58:00 pm
Edit: Looks like GTRS has found a source of 88 calipers. Pricey but available. In The Market.
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 22, 2020, 10:05:50 pm
So I have not heard from the Savannah T-top Formula guy, he looks to only check facebook every two weeks, regularly. But I have been in touch with another 88 Formula in white. This is a pretty much loaded option group 3, 5 speed car, clean saddle colored interior with a bit over 90K on the odometer. Paint is thin in a few spots and he stated it could use "shocks". I had him send me some under car pics. It looks pretty good to me, am I missing anything? The second to last pic is slightly odd, what am I looking at? It is surface rust only but do I see a factory seam or possibly a crack, does it look like has it been welded on? Thanks for looking and any responses would be appreciated.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 22, 2020, 10:12:39 pm
It looks as if the cat is AWOL, but the rusty pipe is missing a spring.
If the shocks need to be replaced, the tri-links likely also need to be replaced.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 22, 2020, 10:20:09 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 22, 2020, 10:25:48 pm
Anyone got a good pic of a cracked cradle to compare to?
Good catch on the missing cat. Not such a big deal with no emissions in GA. As a kid with no cash we cut mine off in 1994 and chiseled out the guts through the small openings in the cut pipes with a long drift rod and welded it back on. But to the inspector it was there. Always had a exhaust leak after that, couldn't weld the top side too well with it still in place, I forgot about doing that just until now.
Post by: Fierofool on January 22, 2020, 10:54:05 pm
There is a lot of rust there. Especially on the front suspension area and I see some of the brackets have rust along with some corrosion on aluminum parts and the alternator. If you can't personally inspect the car try to find a Fiero person near it to go take a look and inspect specific points.
Post by: Raydar on January 23, 2020, 01:49:07 pm
The hanger bracket on the Fiero Store pipe is in the wrong place for the springs to work correctly. (Been there, done that.)
Where the cradles usually crack is where the front trans mount bolts through the front cradle rail. It's about 14 inches in from the left side cradle rail, towards the center of the car. If it's cracked, it may be able to be welded up without dropping the cradle. The lower trans mount will almost certainly need to be unbolted from the cradle and removed. The engine/trans will need to be supported while the mount is out.
You will need to remove the parking brake adjuster (GM calls it an equalizer - it's the metal center link) and allow the cables to drop down, in order to access the inside/underside of the cradle rail.
Edit - I saw the "crack" that you mentioned. That appears to be on the bottom of the left side cradle rail. I'm not convinced that it's not a shadow. Hard to tell, though. That is not where the cradles usually crack. Cracks in the 88 cradle are usually caused by engine torque, trying to pull the front trans mount out of the cradle, when the engine twists backwards. (My cradle is reinforced, but I separated my lower mount, and broke some other stuff.)
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 23, 2020, 08:15:40 pm
How much actual paint was on the chassis? Were these dipped or electrocoated or what? I'm thinking it was a one step process no primer just satin finish black. Not too much protection, correct?
The car is about 5 1/2 hours from Atlanta. Its a gulf coast car, so salt air certainly. I imagine if it had gotten hurricane'd it would be an awful mess by now.
Its a top two choices color, right year, right model, factory motor with moderate miles, a stick (the wife was extra happy with that) and a solid roof. Got a lot of pluses for me. Negatives are I would prefer a grey interior (though it is in nice shape), it is loaded (lots more stuff to break), the unknown bits underneath we have been discussing. I think I could live with the interior and A/C and power gadgets. If the frame has structural rust issues it is dead to me ( a reparable crack I can deal with).
Might be a week or two till I can get away to see it, carma says if it is still there it was meant to be (maybe, it is a good one), if it is gone it was not. There will be another.
Post by: Raydar on January 23, 2020, 08:52:40 pm
But yeah... check the sides of the trunk, where the upper frame rails are welded to the ends of the compartment.
From what I've seen, it looks really nice. (I have no idea what his price is.)
Post by: Fierofool on January 23, 2020, 09:57:26 pm
Post by: NoMad on January 24, 2020, 01:01:36 am
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 24, 2020, 06:21:13 pm
There is a free VIN check for being reported stolen and salvaged/totaled from the National Insurance Crime Bureau https://www.nicb.org/vincheck . It came back clean on stolen/totaled.
Both AutoCheck and CarFax cost money, no way around that. AutoCheck says 30 records on that VIN and CarFax shows only 21 records, that is as much of a teaser as they will give you for free. I have to assume they are all just registration renewals, and with AutoCheck possible sales at auction when in the dealer used car market, but it would be nice to know where it has been. I have history from seller for past 14 years but that leaves a lot of time on the table. Worth $25 for AutoCheck or $40 for CarFax? Thinking if I like it in person, I can spend the $25 on my phone for cheap peace of mind before I hand over any cash.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 24, 2020, 06:28:50 pm
The more documentation you have on file for a vehicle, the better.
Post by: Fierofool on January 24, 2020, 06:58:24 pm
I found that each has information that the other doesn't. AutoChek gets some of their reports from garages, body shops and lube centers, so that may account for some of the extra items.
I ran a CarFax on my first Fiero and it showed there had been an accident after I had bought it. That accident was a motorcycle that laid it down and slid into the back end of me as I was slowing for a car turning into a gas station. When I saw the bike coming, I accelerated to lessen the impact. His handlebar put a small dent in my license plate. That was the accident that showed up. Yearly registrations can also be part of the hits on the VIN.
You can take the VIN to the county tag office and have them do a check for anything outstanding. Tell them you want to know before you purchase and sink any money into it. I did that with one I bought from a junk yard. My bill of sale said for parts only but I got a title on it through Georgia DMV.
Post by: Raydar on January 24, 2020, 07:12:10 pm
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The top rail in the picture is situated towards the front of the car, when installed. The rusty spot on the top left is where the trans mount is bolted.
There are two sets of holes, situated a few inches apart. This allows some flexibility in where the trans is mounted. (I have no idea regarding which trans "likes" which set of holes.) This area is where the damage usually occurs.
The pieces that are being sold on Pennocks are designed to fit inside the rail, from underneath.
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 24, 2020, 08:30:28 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 25, 2020, 02:32:06 pm
You all have been very helpful thus far on my re-entry journey, thank you.
Larry
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 26, 2020, 08:31:47 am
Post by: Raydar on January 26, 2020, 06:46:42 pm
I just dropped my $25 for full membership.
You all have been very helpful thus far on my re-entry journey, thank you.
Larry
Welcome to our obsession!
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 08, 2020, 09:15:29 am
I know it is red, but it is the more burgundy version. I decided I just have to have a 5-speed and grey interior. Lots of pics. Looks very clean underneath. What do you think it will go for?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 08, 2020, 09:21:27 am
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 08, 2020, 09:46:28 am
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 08, 2020, 09:54:01 am
You could ask one of the Fiero people in AZ to take a look.
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 08, 2020, 04:44:14 pm
I started the bidding at $550.........I need a parts car for a car I don't own yet, right? I wish I lived out in the country and had room for all this stuff.............
Post by: NoMad on February 08, 2020, 06:41:42 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 08, 2020, 09:52:32 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 10, 2020, 07:20:22 am
It is the same car but a fipper is re-listing, it was on FB marketplace for a few weeks after being on CL for a month, owner told me he sold it two weeks ago. He wanted $3200 for it, not sure what he got for it. I just did not like the interior color at all and that is what put me off from making a go for it.
Post by: Raydar on February 10, 2020, 06:11:15 pm
I thought about it too (it was at $5300 when I left work) but it eventually went for $7900, I think.
No way I could have kept up with that. But it wasn't happening anyway. If I had bought it, I'd have had to sleep in it.
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 10, 2020, 06:14:03 pm
The one in TX with the orange paint ended with a win of $4980. I have a sneaking suspicion the last bet was too much by a secondary bidder and it will be relisted, But I could be wrong. It is possible that someone got a good price on a customized car that didn't have wide appeal because of it. $5000 does seem to be going rate for these things.
The three on BaT went pretty high or not depending on how you'd look at them. I had approval on the Formula for a total cost with collecting and buyers premium of $7,250 by the boss lady. She even told me this morning she could see herself in it at the kids carpool. It went for $7900+5% premium. With the cost of a flight to CT to collect it it was just a bit too much for us.
There will always be another. The search continues.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 10, 2020, 06:15:25 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 10, 2020, 06:28:17 pm
I do not think it was out of line, it was a very nice car with very low miles. Try and find a used car at a lot with 40k on the clock and see what it will cost. Our VW was used and had 45K and cost us $14,000 out the door three years ago. It is now worth around half that, and in another three it will be halved again and probably be a $3500 car till it gets crushed. That one should hold its value or depreciate accordingly with use but no where near as bad as a modern car. For that price though someone is probably going to drive it 1000 miles a year and polish it with a diaper in its heated garage, too bad.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 10, 2020, 06:47:29 pm
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 10, 2020, 07:41:05 pm
I don't begrudge someone for trying to earn a buck but look at the Model A folks. Flippers shot them up, kids (40-somethings are kids in the old car hobby) became disinterested and now you cant get even 8 grand for one anymore when 16 was the going rate 5-8 years ago. People keep asking 16 becuse that is what they (or their departed dad) paid and they don't sell because the flippers are gone as they know they cant get 20 and have moved on to screw up another old car market. When A's go from 8 back to 5 hobbyists will start buying them again and the flippers will come back in and scoop up ones at 4 and try to make them 6 and start it all over again.
Have the Fiero's hit bottom? Is interest rising? How much is he going to make on this one? Will he be stuck with it or selling at minimal gain? Should I have bought it and flipped it(totally not my style)?
At $2500 I could have lived with the tan interior.........for a while. Ugh.
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 12, 2020, 08:46:24 am
Post by: The Art Doctor on February 16, 2020, 06:09:24 pm
EDIT: I sat there on the end of the bed phone in hand wife at my side, I knew the $3500 was both bidders top bid as both were equal and tied based on who was first. We just kept looking at the pic of that tan interior and shaking our heads. Michelle saved me from myself, took the phone away and watched the seconds tick off. $3501 would have got it, I let it go. There will be another and now I know it must have a grey interior.
If I could find a Formula in this shape I'd be hard pressed to pass it up, even if it is an auto. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Pontiac-Fiero-GT/352969931999?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225086%26meid%3Dc108682abfa24410bfe639e03ec0bca8%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D193338462063%26itm%3D352969931999%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8720c644-5110-11ea-a34c-74dbd180df9b%7Cparentrq%3A503df1081700a4b7b72843c1ffd52456%7Ciid%3A1
Cruddy cell pic in a dark garage but you can tell from the auction that it is quite a nice car.
What do you think it will go for?
Post by: The Art Doctor on March 19, 2020, 08:26:29 am
Post by: Fierofool on March 19, 2020, 08:55:24 am
Post by: The Art Doctor on March 19, 2020, 06:23:15 pm
Horns broken, turn signal/cruse stalk broken and gorilla glued and taped together.
Started well but idle would not come down, TPS was broken and gorilla glued in place and screws were stripped. No smoke from tail pipe, original cat in place, no gunk in tail pipes, good motor. Had some rust in trunk corners, two holes each side nearly same spots and on suspension, I think it sat in a field or on grass way too long. Engine rocked a ton putting in and out of gear, rubbers were all shot and had to assume suspension rubbers were all bad too. Trunk full of water because wing bolts broken off, cockpit carpet wet under seats as dew wipes non-existent. Seats were cherry, all interior plastics were coming apart at the seams. Tires had to be 15 years old, like new tread wise but cracked all to hell. Pretty much a parts car or resto project as far as I was concerned. After 5 min I knew it was not the car for me but I kept telling him everything that was up with it so he'd know, decent fellow. Didn't bother driving it, but damn it felt good to sit in the seat, I'm totally hooked again!
Throttle was real stiff, is this normal or a bad cable issue?
Not a total wasted trip, I got to spend some road trip time with my friend, got some good food at a diner along the way, got to check out a car with no pressure of buying. The search continues
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 19, 2020, 06:31:57 pm
Post by: Raydar on March 19, 2020, 10:00:58 pm
Aside from all of the other stuff, it probably would have cost you another $3-4K to get the paint sorted. It's easier to paint over a (dead) factory finish, than it is to paint over a repaint.