Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => Tech Tips, Tech Questions => Topic started by: TopNotch on March 06, 2022, 06:03:18 pm

Title: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on March 06, 2022, 06:03:18 pm
I'll cover my cradle drop in this thread.
In case you don't know, the $400 Ebay transmission I put in the car almost died last November when I went to my brother's house in Texas for Thanksgiving. I had put that transmission in the car when the one that came in it died on RFTH. I seem to have bad luck with transmissions in this car.
Anyhow, the weather has been nice for a while, so I have been making preparations to drop the cradle. As before, I will lift the car by the rear bumper, but this time, I'm saving some work by not removing the "egg crate" from the metal bumper.

I cut a hole in the plastic "apron" under the metal bumper, and passed the chain between the egg crate and bumper. I did this because the egg crate is held to the bumper using "blind" nuts, and they tend to turn when you turn the bolts. And putting the egg crate back on is a real bear. So I'm just leaving it on this time.
I just have a few more things to disconnect before I can lift the car, but since it is supposed to rain all next week, it'll be a while before I do that, and update this thread again.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: AJ_87Fiero on March 07, 2022, 02:11:04 pm
*Subscribed*
Student #1 in Pat's Masterclass.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: NoMad on March 07, 2022, 03:47:23 pm
Out of curiosity, which trans keeps blowing? Might be able to source a stronger replacement or find out what the limitations of the trans are and if their is a remedy.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Raydar on March 07, 2022, 08:04:58 pm
I was going to suggest a manual swap, but I won't go there.
I love mine, even bolted to the 4.9, but it's a complete PITA to do.

I hope there is still a warranty on the eBay trans. Even with... I'd still be really mad.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on March 07, 2022, 09:16:05 pm
There was a 1 year warranty. I bought it in October 2020, and it failed in November 2021. It is what it is.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on March 07, 2022, 09:26:48 pm
Out of curiosity, which trans keeps blowing?
4T60E. Both transmissions had a lot of miles, and unknown history. I expect a freshly rebuilt one to do better.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on March 22, 2022, 05:21:58 pm
Today was a good day to pick up a car...


A 4x4 just forward of where the front of the cradle attaches, on jack stands, holds up the car.


The last time I did this I almost ruined my air dam, so this time I put big timber pieces that I happened to have under the car for it to rest on while the rear was picked up. After putting the car on the 4x4 and releasing the shop crane, the front lifts up a bit.


After pulling the engine out (on my homemade dolly), I put a tarp on it, because it's supposed to storm tonight.

Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Fierofool on March 22, 2022, 06:15:56 pm
If you can lash that tarp down, you may want to.  With the milder winds we had last week, my fitted car cover came off because I didn't put the security cable on it.  This afternoon, I cinched it down well in preparation for what they're predicting to be some much stronger storms. 
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: SpadeCustoms on March 27, 2022, 02:52:04 am
You haven't bent up your metal bumper bracing doing this?
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on March 27, 2022, 01:52:08 pm
You haven't bent up your metal bumper bracing doing this?
Not even slightly. Those things must be made of some kind of high carbon steel. You could probably make a good knife out of some of that steel.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Raydar on March 27, 2022, 04:03:05 pm
You haven't bent up your metal bumper bracing doing this?

I've also lifted my car using the bumper bar (without the "eggcrate") with no issues.
But I got tired of removing the bumper cover, and just looped the chain through the channel at the front of the trunk compartment.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: SpadeCustoms on March 28, 2022, 12:47:43 pm
You haven't bent up your metal bumper bracing doing this?

I've also lifted my car using the bumper bar (without the "eggcrate") with no issues.
But I got tired of removing the bumper cover, and just looped the chain through the channel at the front of the trunk compartment.

That's usually how I do mine but I took everything off as you can see from my Facebook. Hooking through the trunk bracing does make it interesting rolling an motor and cradle out the side. I will use the bumper support this time putting it back in since it will give me a lot more maneuverability to swing this 4.9 in.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 05, 2022, 09:17:07 am
While my engine is out of the car, I've taken the opportunity to address my exhaust problems. You may recall from my previous reports on the car that my rear exhaust manifold is cracked. It seems to be home-made, and I don't think that it was made quite right. When the cross-over pipe is attached and tightened, it seems to put stress on the manifold, which, I think, caused the cracks. I welded the cracks (again), but I'm afraid that the stress could cause more cracks. So I found another manifold on Ebay. The picture below shows my manifold with the one I bought.

Rather than doing any cutting or welding on the "new" manifold, I just plugged the O2 sensor hole, and made a plate to cover the outlet. (My O2 sensor is on the other side of the engine.) I cleaned the manifold and sprayed it with high temp silicone exhaust coating.

I also cleaned and coated the front manifold, which, by the way, is cast, and not cracked. And just in case I have to use it, I cleaned and coated the old rear manifold.
The instructions on the can of exhaust coating say to bake the sprayed parts at at least 400 degrees to cure it. So I set my oven to 425 and put the pieces in. And, of course, my smoke alarms went off after a while, so I had to open some windows and clear the air. But at least, the parts are coated and cured now.
You may recall in my earlier report that I had found the rear manifold to have been installed with no gasket. Well, the front one also  had no gasket, and i think it was leaking slightly. Thay may explain why the vacuum line to the transmission modulator kept melting. I'll use a gasket when I put it back on.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Fierofool on April 05, 2022, 04:29:32 pm
Good work.  I used to bake intakes and  valve covers when I sprayed them with ceramic engine paint.  Never had the smoke alarm go off but I did have a hard time explaining the smell to Melanie when she came home.

What did you use as a seal beneath the block off plate?
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 05, 2022, 08:34:36 pm
What did you use as a seal beneath the block off plate?
It fits tight against the opening, and at first I thought it might be tight enough by itself, but then I remembered I had this stuff called Muffler Weld, so I smeared some of that on the opening. That will make a tight, heat proof seal.
I think the smoke came from some crud inside the Ebay manifold. It must have come from a badly running engine.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 12, 2022, 05:10:19 pm
My engine is ready to receive another transmission. I've had spme back and knee pain lately, so I'm doing this job slowly. Thank God for shop cranes.

Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 13, 2022, 01:39:47 pm
Today I replaced some melted wire loom. I had bought it from Amazon. I guess they're not the place to buy wire loom. I replaced it with some high temp wire loom from Summit. I already had some on the car, so I know it will hold up.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Fierofool on April 13, 2022, 07:42:33 pm
Which did you get?  Did you get a temperature range?  I need to replace melted loom on my car.  The stuff I'm told I need to get should have a silver or gray stripe on it to indicate that it's for temperatures experienced in the engine bay. 
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 13, 2022, 07:46:38 pm
I just searched for "high temperature wire loom" and got what came up. It has a silver stripe on it.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 13, 2022, 09:31:31 pm
The brand of wire loom I got is Ron Francis. Apparently they only make 3 sizes, but theirs is made of nylon, while other brands are made of polyethylene or something like that. You can get it at ronfrancis.com if no one else has it.
Edit: I looked on Jeggs for "high temp wire loom", and what I found there was only good for up to 200 degrees F. The melting point of nylon is 512 degrees F.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on April 17, 2022, 08:49:42 pm
More improvements while the engine is out... The "ribs" on my valve covers have never looked real good. I tried sanding and polishing them, and even putting metallic tape on them, but neither gave good results.
My latest attempt is to paint them with exhaust coating. I also wire-brushed and painted the rusty EGR valve mount. Here is a picture that shows one of the valve covers and the EGR valve mount.

Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 03, 2022, 05:16:46 pm
The stuff I used at first to paint my exhaust pieces with was some I already had, and it was DEI brand (Design Engineering Inc.). When I ran out of it, I tried to find more, and found some on eastwood.com. I ordered some way back on April 8, and still haven't received it. So I searched on Amazon and found this:

Before I bought it from Amazon, I tried to find some at the local AutoZone, but they didn't have it. It would be nice if they did. And this brand has a "bake on the car" procedure in the instructions. That's good, because the cross-over pipe is too big for the oven.
I paid for the Eastwood order by Paypal, so I have applied for a refund with them.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: SpadeCustoms on May 04, 2022, 10:09:07 am
Most of our local stores do not have "quality" stuff for exhaust painting. Did you look at Summit for the DEI stuff?

BTW I used the bumper method to raise the car up. Helped out tremendously to slide the 4.9 in. Didn't have to fight to get around the cherry picker this time.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 15, 2022, 06:24:16 pm
My car is nearly all back together except for the rear bumper cover. And I have good news and bad news.
The good news: It started right up. It was as if it hadn't sat disassembled since last November.
So with all the appropriate fluids in the car, I decided to let it run for a little while. Since the transmission pump runs even when the car isn't going anywhere, I had put some ATF in my "new" transmission.
The bad news: One of my transmission coolant hoses came off the metal line from the transmission, and the transmission peed ATF all over my home-made carport concrete. Well, at least I know that the transmission pump works quite well.
So I went to the store and got a large bag of cheap store brand cat litter to pour on the mess. I'll clean it up tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Fierofool on May 15, 2022, 07:22:04 pm
I bought the same brand in black to paint my battery tray area and an area on the cradle after treating it with rust converter while the engine was out.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 15, 2022, 08:26:35 pm
I bought the same brand in black to paint my battery tray area and an area on the cradle after treating it with rust converter while the engine was out.
I assume you meant the same brand of exhaust coating I mentioned in a previous post, and not the brand of kitty litter I mentioned in my last post. ;)
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 17, 2022, 08:23:01 pm
Well, since I have no idea when or if my original transmission will be rebuilt, the transmission I put in my car is a "plan B" transmission. I bought a used one, not from Ebay this time, but from a dealer of used and re-manufactured transmissions. They didn't have a remanned one that met my needs, but they had a used  one with 73k miles on it, and a one year warranty. So I bought it, and it's in the car.
It has a curious problem that I will live with for now -- my body is too beat up to work on it any more for a while. It will only go if it is in reverse of first gear. But once the car starts going, I can shift to a higher gear and it will "catch". After that, it works normally until I have to stop. Then I have to shift to first again to take off. If any of you know what's going on, please let me know.
I will go on longer and longer test drives to see if anything changes.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Fierofool on May 17, 2022, 08:49:08 pm
I bought the same brand in black to paint my battery tray area and an area on the cradle after treating it with rust converter while the engine was out.
I assume you meant the same brand of exhaust coating I mentioned in a previous post, and not the brand of kitty litter I mentioned in my last post. ;)

 :D
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 18, 2022, 11:18:54 am
This morning I went on a test drive at highway speeds. The transmission worked just fine, except if I stopped, I had to switch to first gear to take off again. While driving, I could put it in 4th, and the transmission would shift as required depending on how fast I was going.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: Raydar on May 18, 2022, 08:07:26 pm
Pat... I think that car has "got it in" for you.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 18, 2022, 08:28:14 pm
In order to be able to shift into 1st gear, I had to monkey with the shift linkage a bit. And now the detents in the transmission don't match the detents in the shifter (which was meant for use with a TH-125 3-speed auto transmission).
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 19, 2022, 01:12:23 pm
I went on another test drive today. It was going to be a long one, but my engine started idling very fast, so I went back home and put my scanner on. It said "Vehicle speed sensor failure". My "new" transmission already had a speed sensor in it, so I had left it in. So now I have to get the one from my old transmission and put it in, and since the speed sensor for the 4T60E is under my low mount alternator, I'll have to remove that. If it isn't one thing, it's another.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 21, 2022, 02:26:26 pm
I replaced the VSS with the one from my old transmission, and it seems to work OK. Next I did a little web searching about my probelm (having to shift into 1st to take off, and I found someone discussing the same problem. He tried disconnecting his vacuum modulator, and it fixed his problem. So I disconnected mine, plugged the vacuum line to avoid a vacuum leak, and went on a short test drive. Well, that seems to have fixed it. There's just a little bit of slip if you take off with a heavy throttle (which you don't get if you physically shift into 1st, but other than that, it shifts perfectly normally. Without the vacuum modulator, it shifts crisply (like with a shift kit?), but I certainly don't mind that.
Title: Re: Gotta drop the cradle on my 3800 car again...
Post by: TopNotch on May 22, 2022, 12:14:59 pm
Today I took the car on a test drive up I985 to where it ends and turns into Highway 23 and back down to home. I had no problems, so I hereby pronounce the transmission not perfect, but Ok.