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Author Topic: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors  (Read 178 times)

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Fierofool

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Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« on: January 12, 2018, 11:55:32 AM »
I was thinking of other possible sources for transmissions for the Fiero, especially the manual transmissions.  I remember that I once worked with a lady that had a Cadillac Cimmaron with a V6 and a manual transmission. 

I don't know if it was a 4-speed transmission or a 5-speed, nor what year it was.  I think the Cimmarons were made along the same period of time as the Fiero and maybe on into the early 90's.  I seem to recall that some model years or trim lines had pop-up headlight doors, too. 

Has anyone ever looked into these as possible sources?
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scottb

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 05:31:39 PM »
From what I remember, the Cimarron was an overpriced Cavalier. If the Cavalier transmission will work the Caddy is the same thing. I thought the J-cars had fixed headlights. Please keep in mind thst I am not an expert, nor did I stay at the Holiday Inn last night.

Raydar

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 05:52:06 PM »
It's on the internet. It's got to be true... right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cimarron
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Fierofool

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 06:23:08 PM »
You may know the lady.  Edith Looper.  At one time she worked at the Dawsonville Pool Room.  Her husband owned Looper Recycling.  I thought her car had fold-up headlight doors.  Maybe not. 

Just looked at your link, Raydar.  No headlight doors on those cars.  It does list an automatic, a 4-speed and a 5-speed transmission, though.  Maybe it was like the Fiero.  4-speed for one engine and 5-speed for the other engine.  I also just looked at trivet's link (same as yours).  I didn't check it out before. 

I just did a search and found that the 85 Cimarron 2.8 V6 had an MX6 4-speed.  Is that the same as the 85 and 86 Fiero?  They used the THM125C automatic, so the bellhousing is the same as the Fiero. 
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Raydar

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 06:45:31 PM »
...
I just did a search and found that the 85 Cimarron 2.8 V6 had an MX6 4-speed.  Is that the same as the 85 and 86 Fiero? 

I've never heard of an MX6 (RPO) 4 speed. Maybe it has different gearing from an M17.
If it's geared "taller", it might make a good swap for torque monster engines, like the 4.9.

It also makes me wonder what the RPO is for the later (92-92) Cavalier 5 speed. Figured it would be the same as the Fiero. (Wasn't it MT2, or MG2?)
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scottb

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 06:53:23 PM »
I know Leonard Looper of L&M Salvage. ..... interesting fellow for a Grumpy Old Man

Fierofool

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 08:11:53 PM »
Yes, Leonard was her husband.

Found this just now:

MX6 : TRANSMISSION, MAN 4 SPD, MUNCIE, 76MM, 3.31 1

M17 : TRANSMISSION, MAN 4 SPD, MUNCIE, 76MM, 3.31 1
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Raydar

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 09:08:48 PM »
...
M17 : TRANSMISSION, MAN 4 SPD, MUNCIE, 76MM, 3.31 1

I found that same chart.

I don't think that's correct. The M17 was the V6 Fiero 4 speed trans... correct?
It's supposed to have a 3.65 FDR.
The 84 "economy" 4 speed came with a 3.32 FDR. Believe it was MY8. 

If the MX6 was available with a V6, it might be a stronger "economy" option for our cars. (There were supposedly a ton of 4 speeds, used in the Citation, that never made it to the Fiero.) Or it might just be the FWD version of the Fiero MY8.

Would be interesting to find an RPO sticker to see which engine that trans was bolted to.

Here's a chart that Loyde posted for Fiero (and later GM) trans ratios.
http://www.fastfieros.com/NEW_manual_transmission_ratios.htm
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Fierofool

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 12:19:22 AM »
You're correct.  the M17 was the Fiero V6 trans.  The MX6 appears to have been the same transmission in the Cimarron except gearing. Wonder if it was also used in the X11. 

The Cimarron also had a 4 cylinder engine and I would bet that was the 5-speed transmission.  Same setup as they had in the Fieros.  The Cimarron transmission just may be a stronger trans.

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Raydar

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 10:37:54 AM »
You're correct.  the M17 was the Fiero V6 trans.  The MX6 appears to have been the same transmission in the Cimarron except gearing. Wonder if it was also used in the X11. 
...

I suspect that the X11 received the more performance oriented transmission. At least a 3.65. Maybe even the 4.10.
Certainly nothing more than a wild guess, however.
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HarryT

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 02:25:15 AM »
My Encyclopedia of American Cars shows,  Cimmaron form 82 to 88.
82 - 4 cyl.   112  ( Not sure if this is a miss print)
83 - 4 cyl.   121, 
84 - 4 cyl.   121. 
85 and 86 - 4 cyl.  121 or 6 cyl.  173,
87 and 88 all 6cyl.  173.
Don't know about transmissions. 
None had pop up headlights.
Don't know if this helps.
Harry
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Fierofool

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 08:49:20 AM »
That does eliminate a possible source for headlight motors.  It does bring another question to mind and that is if the 4 cylinder engine long block is interchangeable with the Fiero Duke. 

I'd like to see a picture of a Cimmaron 4-speed transmission to see how the shift and slave cylinder are set up.
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scottb

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 10:45:19 AM »
My Encyclopedia of American Cars shows,  Cimmaron form 82 to 88.
82 - 4 cyl.   112  ( Not sure if this is a miss print)
83 - 4 cyl.   121, 
84 - 4 cyl.   121. 
85 and 86 - 4 cyl.  121 or 6 cyl.  173,
87 and 88 all 6cyl.  173.
Don't know about transmissions. 
None had pop up headlights.
Don't know if this helps.
Harry

I think the 112 cubic inch engine is 1.8 liter

Raydar

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 11:15:06 AM »
My Encyclopedia of American Cars shows,  Cimmaron form 82 to 88.
82 - 4 cyl.   112  ( Not sure if this is a miss print)
83 - 4 cyl.   121, 
84 - 4 cyl.   121. 
85 and 86 - 4 cyl.  121 or 6 cyl.  173,
87 and 88 all 6cyl.  173.
Don't know about transmissions. 
None had pop up headlights.
Don't know if this helps.
Harry

Yup.
Those were the J body (including the Cimarron) engines.
112 = ~1.8 liters.
121 = ~2.0 liters.

A bit of trivia...
It ultimately was stroked out to 2.2 liters (134 CI) and made 120 HP. It became the replacement for the Iron Duke.
Apparently, no J-body, including the Cimarron, ever received an Iron Duke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_122_engine
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TopNotch

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Re: Cadillac Cimmaron Transmission and Headlight Motors
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 01:04:34 PM »
I used to have an 84 Pontiac Sunbird with the 121 engine. A great little engine that never gave me trouble. Unfortunately, the car died before the engine did (if it ever did). I lived in Michigan at the time, and another car slid into mine on an icy road.
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