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Author Topic: Columbus Day  (Read 18375 times)

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Roger

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Columbus Day
« on: October 11, 2013, 06:49:05 am »
Just so you know about the person we celebrate this coming Monday.
I could just slap all of my history teachers.



http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day


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Fierofool

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Re: Columbus Day
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 08:22:43 am »
An interesting read.  I read the whole thing.  But you can't tell school kids this stuff.  It would damage their poor little brains. 
There are three kinds of men:

1.    The ones that learn by reading.
2.    The few who learn by observation.
3.    The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.    Will Rogers

f85gtron

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Re: Columbus Day
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 09:37:49 pm »
dang.  that changes things.  wow.... thanks.
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Columbus Day
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2017, 01:48:40 am »
I read that whole story.  I'm sure there is truth to it.  It was a different time.  On the other hand, there are exact replicas of the Niña, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria that sometimes dock nearby.  I've been on all 3.  They won't hold 500 people, combined.  What bigger then would hold 500 people, much less food and water for 500 people for 3 months?  Many of Columbus' people also died on the crossing.  Even in the 1800's, people died on the crossing.

Slavery existed in both Europe and Africa long before Columbus.  It was easier to get gold from Africa to Spain, than from North America to Spain.  African slaves also cost more than gold, although not pound for pound.  Taking inflation into account, suppose a slave was $2,000 in Africa.  That's a lot of gold, but only 1 slave.  The gold takes up little space, doesn't need food or care, and brings instant wealth.  A slave needs food and care, may die or escape, and requires much space.  The ROI is not as great.  A healthy male slave went for $30,000-$35,000 here.

Actually, Columbus took back a lot of potash and timber, which were often worth more than gold.

Yes, the Native Americans were used and abused.  Some were brought back to Spain.  And yes, the journey was perilous.  The Native Americans considered it basically a prison.  You would, too, if stuck for months on a cramped little ship for months, when you were used to roaming broad forests.

The Native Americans had little gold, and little use for it.  It was heavy, and its glittering would both attract enemies and scare off prey.  In a world of survival, gold was useless.  I'm not claiming that all tribes were the same, but pick an Eastern tribe.  Doesn't fit.

Yes, Columbus was looking for gold.  Yes, the Native Americans liked trinkets.

The Cahokia Indians died of diseases brought in by other tribes who came to trade.  Cahokia was long the trading center for Indian tribes East of the Rocky Mountains.  Not so much gold.  You couldn't eat it, drink it, or hunt with it.  It wouldn't buy a bride.

For trinket value, silver and other things were more flashy.  No mention of them, though.  Finally, Eastern tribes weren't known for digging in the ground.  The Kickapoo and Natchee had earthen dwellings, as did a handfull of other tribes, but manual labor was generally considered beneath the men.  They weren't going to go digging.  As for the women, they didn't have time.  However you figure they could get gold, they didn't have time, except accidental.  The tribes were migratory--even those that farmed.  They didn't collect many worldly goods, because they couldn't transport them.  Yes, I'm sure there were occasional gold adornments on necklaces, but nothing in any real quantity.

For most Native American tribes, the words for stranger and enemy were identical.  The same as Spaniards considered the Native Americans inferior enemies, it was mostly mutual with the Native Americans to the Spaniards.

I realize that not all tribes were warlike.  That having been said, the various tribes were all basically at war with each other.  There were some friendly tribes, like the Catawba, but even they were fierce warriors.  I'm not familiar with some of the Southeastern tribes, but it was a battle for survival.  The white men had what, muzzle-loaders, swords, muskets, and not much else.  Unlike Columbus and his men, the Native Americans were native to this land, and used to fighting as a way of life.  Even any cannon Columbus could bring to bear would be useless.  The Native Americans were few in number, but still far outnumbered Columbus and his men.  The Native Americans hunted, fought, and killed to survive.  It was their way of life.  The Native Americans could've killed Columbus and his men and been gone.  I find the idea of overmatched Native Americans running in fear questionable.  They were just as formidable then as they were hundreds of years later when they wiped out armed forts, armed patrols, etc.  60 or so sailors on the land would have been easy prey.  In fact, many settlements were wiped out, from those early days, through hundreds of years later.  If you'll recall the Revolutionary War, where we picked off the Redcoats who had no familiarity with the fighting methods we'd learned from the Native Americans.  If anything, Columbus and his men were overmatched by the weapons of the Native Americans.  The bows of the Native Americans could fire faster than anything the white men could bring to bear.  Yep, the white men had to depend on the Native Americans for food, because the white man didn't know how to hunt, gather, or farm.

Native Americans had entirely different attitudes about women than the white man.  I won't elaborate, but the details in the article don't ring true for any of the tribes with which I'm familiar.

All that having been written, I'm no expert on any of this.

GTXVette

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Re: Columbus Day
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 11:18:32 am »
WOW!

          That Sucks.

TopNotch

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Re: Columbus Day
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 10:49:44 pm »
The native people of Mexico and points south did have gold, and lots of it. One of the ways they killed captured Spaniards was to pour molten gold down their throats (as revenge for taking their gold).
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Columbus Day
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 07:55:11 am »
Yes, the Incas, I think.  Maybe the Mayans.  Whomever it was, they worshiped gold.  That was later that the Spanish got to Mexico, which is much farther West.  In that area, they also had human sacrifice, and other nasty stuff.