Confused about 7730

[86FIFI]

OK, so the other day I went to a junkyard and they had a 01227730 ECM and I was going to buy it, but figured I would do some research first. I posted a link in Pennocks, and asked for the advantages of it. The response I got was that it maintains steady idle, and driveability is better. I was told I would get little to no performance gains, but on here Flyboy81 states an increase of 20 hp and oldone reports better gas mileage. Would this be my case as well? I also contemplated just tuning my stock ecm, and lowering my idle with deleting egr if I was going to get it tuned. But as before, I was told there would be little to no performance gains from tuning the stock ecm. Can someone just please explain this a little better?

Thanks,
Matt 

[86FIFI]

Here is a link of my post on Pennocks.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/114333.html

[Fierofool]

From what I've read, there is generally a HP gain with the 7730.  Seems like the general range is about 20HP.  It's a more tuneable chip than the stock Fiero chip.  The 7730 also updates much faster than the Fiero chip.  I think it's 10 times per second for the Fiero and every 1/10 second for the 7730.  Raydar might be able to give you some insight.  He has a chip burner. 

[86FIFI]

Fierofool did you read my thread I created on pennocks and the response I got from everyone? Is their info not reliable? Does anyone have any dyno results or results on paper showing HP gains.20 HP is a lot on a motor with only 140 HP stock.

[Fierofool]

No, I haven't seen it, but I'll go take a look.  I can't give you any figures from experience.  I only related what I've read, heard, and been told.  Flyboy-81 up in Tennessee had told me that there was about a 20 hp gain with the 7730.  I would accept the word of those who have personal experience with the 7730 over what I have told you second hand.  

From personal experience I can tell you that the Berettas with the automatic transmission was detuned by 20 hp compared with the 5 speeds.  My wife's V6 5 speed was rated at 180 while a friend's same year Corsica V6 automatic was rated at 160.  The Beretta/Corsica uses the 7730 ECM.

Edit:
I just read the PFF thread and there seems to be some varying opinions there, too.  It would probably be best to PM Darth and Flyboy81 and get their opinions of what benefits they can give you.  One thing I picked up on is the discussion of the knock sensor.  On the engines using the 7730, there is a provision in the block for the knock sensor.  The Fiero 2.8 doesn't have that provision, so I don't know how they're enabling that feature. 

For example, my 3.4 which can use the 7730 has a crank sensor, cam sensor, and knock sensor.  I also have and plan to install the digital EGR when I do the conversion.  Along with the update speed of the 7730 and the input of all the sensors, I should attain a much more driveable engine.  I was told by a programmer that the cost of HP gain with a 7730 is cheaper than an upgrade to a 3.4.  Same HP at less than half the cost. 

But again, I suggest you talk directly with several people who program 7730's for Fiero application before making your decision.

If you can, get as much of the 3 harnesses with wire that plug into the 7730.  You may also want to try to find a fried V6 Fiero ECM so that you don't have to destroy yours if you plan to just do an adapter harness between the stock harness and the new ECM. 

Your question about price of the ECM?  I paid $28 for the ECM, about 8 inches of harness with the 3 connectors, the digital EGR valve and 1 foot of harness for it. 

[TopNotch]

The reason why an ECM with a knock sensor can make more HP is that it can "push" the engine harder with more aggressive timing. It will then back off if the knock sensor detects any knocking. It will "learn" the optimum timing for the engine this way. The older ECM has to use more conservative timing.

[86FIFI]

Ok, so if I do the 7730 swap, it would be better to use the knock sensor rather than go without? I may actually gain HP by using the knock sensor?

[Raydar]

I can't really offer much insight into the 7730. My experience with it (other than reading) includes opening the box and looking at it, and then putting it on the shelf in the shop.
By all means, use a knock sensor. No reason not to, if it's supported.
Which configuration to use will depend upon whether you want to retain your distributor, or switch to coil packs. The 7730 will support both types.

Ok, so if I do the 7730 swap, it would be better to use the knock sensor rather than go without? I may actually gain HP by using the knock sensor?

[86FIFI]

Ok, i may just do the swap to improve the drivability. I am getting insurance on the car by the end of this month so FIFI will be on the road, and after I do other things I want to the car I will do the swap.

[Fierofool]

From all reports the knock sensor function will give you a little more power because it adjusts the timing for optimum operation.  But like Raydar, I have no personal experience, just what I've read and heard from others.  You might try OldOne.  He had his converted.  He can relate from personal experience.

[Flyboy81]

I'm currently out of the garage and on my cell, I am omw to the garage right now, I will be back shortly to address all these questions as I do have the answers youre looking for.  Thanks

[Flyboy81]

Ive replied to your thread on Pennocks.  Ill give some insight here as well.  The 7730 ECM is the best bang for the buck.  If youre ever planning on modding this engine beyond mild, you will be needing more than the stock ECM can offer.  The 7730 uses a knock sensor, the 2.8 DOES have the provisions for a knock sensor on BOTH sides of the engine.  They are in the form of coolant drain plugs on each side.  Ive found on manual cars, the trunk side is easiest to get to.  Ive got 3 7730 swaps done now and have had no problems from any of the ones Ive done.   Oldone on here has one of these swaps Ive done for him and Ive heard nothing from him but good as far as the cars driving characteristics.  My dads car has this swap and his engine is a very highly modded 2.8 stroker engine.  (Stroked to a 3.3)  His car would not even run on ANY tune we put on the stock ECM, it just didnt have the tables we needed to do it.  We have the ability here at my garage to do tuning on either ECM. 

    If you arent planning on doing anything beyond what your stock 2.8, with very mild mods can do, just stick with a nice mild performance tune to the stock ECU.  It wont be the same gains as the 7730 but you can some some slight performance increases.  My claim to the 20 hp increase on the 7730 swap is with the correct provisions and based on a good condition and running 2.8.  Yes you can see this gain very easily on a stock engine with a good tune and a switch to premium fuel.  You will only likely see a 8 to 10 HP gain to a stock ECU tune due to the fact that it simply wont have the timing curve.  Remember, this is NOT wheel horse power.  We are talking on an average and at the crankshaft and this will all depend on how well your engine runs before hand.