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Author Topic: Another F23 5 spd conversion  (Read 27742 times)

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fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2017, 06:46:53 pm »
I had planned to use my jack from the right side to reach the trolley pad.

Just as an FYI, my floor jack is the Walmart Torin low pro 3 ton found here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Torin-Jacks-3-Ton-Low-Pro-Jack/14560043
It is about 18 inches from the 6 inch high handle pivot to the center of the pad at 3 inches high. My trolley has casters that are 4 inches total height with 2 inches from the framing for 6 inches, but the distance from the side to the cg pad is 18 inches so I can’t raise the handle.

My jack and just about any floor jack that has a pad height of approximately  3 inches will work from the front and the weight is less than half a ton where even the smallest floor jacks are usually rated 1.5 tons. A smaller jack would be easier to use in the confined space or I could make a short handle for my 3 ton unit.

There are affordable jacks that will reach from the side. This costway 3 ton looks like it will work but the length is not shown:  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Costway-3-Ton-Heavy-Duty-Steel-Ultra-Low-Profile-Floor-Jack-Rapid-Pump-Car-Pump-Lowrider/390149058#about-item
This Harbor freight long reach jack should work great being 40 inches long but it is expensive at $134 regular price, so I’ll be looking for a sale: https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-low-profilelong-reach-steel-heavy-duty-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-68050.html

Here is the same thing in aluminum so about 30 pounds lighter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-Rider-3-Ton-Aluminum-Racing-Car-Auto-Floor-Jack-Rapid-Pump-Lift/192252484744?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

And here is a shorter harbor freight that is still way longer than what I have at 29 inches for $95: https://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-low-profile-steel-heavy-duty-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-61253.html?utm_source=publitas&utm_medium=monthly-ad&utm_campaign=082017
I don’t know. Maybe I’ll just go in from the front for now?

I built a lift frame Sunday to go under the back of the car. It provides a wide, stable, lateral beam for a jack and stands and does not interfere with removal of the subframe. I need to add alignment pins to engage the chassis holes so it can’t slip, bolts so it can’t come off under load, and a system to allow a jack with limited travel to bring it up to the required height in two or three lifts. No modification to the car and the stiffest part of the rails are used, the pinch welds. Instead of only an inch of engagement as you would for jacking the car from the side rocker for a tire change, I'm using about 8 inches of pinch weld on each side to lift the car so the load is spread out as much as possible.

I also made adapters that fit the strut towers for a chain lift with a hoist. I was going to cantilever off the upper frame rails at the firewall to the strut adapters to extend the lift point to behind the car but most folks have battery trays in the way so I am trying to make something more universal.
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fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2017, 06:02:43 pm »
My wife bought me the super long 2 ton jack from hbf. It was on sale at $135 plus she used a 20 percent off coupon so it was around $100. It should work perfectly with my trolley.

I finished the lift. I'm waiting on a pair of $20 2 ton jack stands that I ordered so I can make them about 30 inches high to complement the lift. I'd buy some but they'd be about $300. I need to buy more steel tomorrow for that. I'm hoping to get back to the trans swap this week after the tools are finished.

I'll show the jack stand, lift, and trolley in action at that time.
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fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2017, 03:12:19 pm »
Ok, my process is to use my wheel chocks on both front wheels, jack the rear center of the subframe and install jackstand under the corners, then install the lift bracket, move the jack stands to the lift, install the trolley and engine support tube then and drop the subframe, lift the lift to full height which is about 40 inches from the ground to the bottom of the trunk, and roll the trolley out. Plenty of room. Another benefit is the engine cover can be closed fully. 




 






My $19 jack stands came in. I added 20 inches to the height. Now I just need to finish this one and build it's twin, then i can get back to the f23 thing.
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Fierofool

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2017, 08:40:09 am »
I noticed above that your starter is on the left side of the engine.  My 4.3 that was in my boat had the starter on the right side.  I quickly glanced back through and didn't see, but I think you said you used an adapter to relocate it? 

It also used a remote oil filter similar to what you have.  Fed by a QuadraJet, and though it didn't have a conventional distributor, it had a small electronic distributor that fed into a brainbox or ECM.  It was running about 220 HP, according to Yamaha. 
There are three kinds of men:

1.    The ones that learn by reading.
2.    The few who learn by observation.
3.    The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.    Will Rogers

fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2017, 11:48:29 am »
The thick black spacer between the engine and the f23 is the adapter that doubles as the starter mount. The original 4.3 starter location interferes with the passenger side axle.

The relocation interferes with the oil filter and sometimes the exhaust depending on the manifold used.
I’ve had 3 oil filter adapters, 3 different manifolds, and 2 different starters over the years. No failures, just continuing improvement.

The 4.3 is also a common marine engine and another source for carbureted intake manifolds.

The ecm provided the timing curve to the electronic distributor instead of advance weights and vacuum advance. The distributor I have is a basic sbc hei type with weights and vacuum but a six point pickup instead of the 8 point pickup for an sbc. It has one spade terminal for the ignition power and one for the tachometer output.


The adjustable engine support worked great. Just a few turns set it to where I needed it to pull the trans.

While I have it out, there is an area on the subframe that I would like more clearance from. It isn’t necessary but since it is easy to get to….

HTOB/HRB MEASUREMENTS

A few posts back, I mentioned that I tested the clutch system and found 0.480-490” of travel at the HTOB with one full stroke of the fiero master. This is the minimum that the HTOB must be compressed from the end of its travel to ensure it cannot over extend (To compress more than this can result in reduced clutch life, since the pp fingers move toward the trans as the clutch wears and can unload the clutch if shimmed too much).

One way to do this is to make sure the engine side protrudes far enough at the pp fingers to compress the HTOB this far. For tolerances, I chose to use 0.500” as the minimum cushion.

Fully extended, I measured 1.890”. 1.890+0.500 = 2.390” as the minimum distance from the bell mating flange to the HTOB.

For the engine side the pp finger height needs to be a minimum of 2.390” from the bell mating surface with a new clutch.

Here is a comparison of a replacement pp and clutch for a 2002 cavalier and the standard fiero pp used in most applications through the 90s and the aftermarket ceramic clutch I’m using.


The ceramic clutch is 0.320” thick at the facings as is the cavalier clutch with the marcel spring squeezed.

Installed, the standard fiero pp puts the fingers at 2.300“ from the bell housing mating surface on the block adapter and would require a $5 0.89” crank shim if the clutch is new which is slightly less than my cushion minimum of 0.500 but greater than the actual measurements of 0.480-490”. It should be fine.

The cavalier pp puts the fingers at 0.135” further (than the standard fiero pp) from the block adapter at 2.435”, no shimming required.

So now I just need to bench bleed the HTOB and put it back together.
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fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2017, 02:49:00 pm »
Vacuum bled the htob and cleaned up the frame rail to remove the left over pieces of trans mount brackets and beveled the corner for more clearance. Compare to previous photo of rail.


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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2017, 09:15:43 am »
Any update on this?

fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2017, 05:41:52 pm »
I put it back together, added a speedo calibrator, new brake hoses, made a middle section of the center console skeleton out of metal since mine was a mess, cut off the rear deck lid bump and made another, rebuilt the alternator, and moved the fuel tank vapor separator from the passenger side fender well to under the left rear deck grate. I then had a wiring issue that I didn't have time to resolve before working on other things and have not been back to it, but I will eventually. That was around the end of October. I'll put together some pics.
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2017, 05:44:34 pm »
Thanks for the update.  I'm looking forward to the pics.

fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2017, 06:21:40 pm »

Welded a tab to the alt brkt so I could attach a rain guard/heat shield. The shield also picks up a third bolt on the block and is not attached to the alternator so there is an air gap and it does not affect belt adjustment.


Fabbed adjustable throttle bracket to work with the fiero's long exposed cable end that normally wraps around a throttle body quadrant. This pic was before I found I needed to boxed the top where the cable boss fits through.

Installed pic.

Clearance notch I spoke about before. Eventually i will repair the inner well.


Moved tank for better access. Also replaced lines that were severely corroded/split from being under the battery.

This piece goes between the shifter and the front attachment points on the arm rest. I needed a repair and did not want to rebuild the whole center console. I probably will eventually.

I made a deck lid prop also but didn't take any pics. My deck lid springs broke long ago.
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2017, 07:17:26 pm »
Maybe I'll see this some day.

Interesting distributor cover and red shields on the cables.  I guess those are the transmission cables.

fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2017, 05:57:54 pm »
The distributor cover is an aftermarket ignition coil that sits in the cap.
Those are the shifter cables with "fire sleeve" to protect them from exhaust heat. I have sleeving on the oil lines too.
I forgot a pic of the decklid bump.
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Raydar

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2017, 07:50:47 pm »
That's some nice work. Wish I had the skills and tools to fab.
...

fiero4.3L

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2017, 06:08:45 am »
Thanks. For the form, I used thin fanfold insulation hot glued together and waxed. I setup a few layers on the outside, removed the form, added a couple layers to the inside, trimmed to fit the decklid, then glassed it into the deck. It is just rustoleum aerosol spray paint that matched really well.


I removed the firewall wiring bushings to get rid of all the extra wiring I didn't need. A pot of hot water to soften the sealant helps.
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Another F23 5 spd conversion
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2018, 07:37:18 am »
Any updates?