Harmonically unbalanced!!

[PK]

I found a GM harmonic balancer described on eBay as "new".  It has arrived and is definitely not new.  Returning is not an option. 

It has a decent wear groove where the timing case seal sits.  Joyous!!

I have heard talk of a harmonic balancer repair sleeve kit, which includes a sleeve oversize the shaft and then a new seal of correct dimensions for now oversized shaft.

I think the "national" brand make them but am having no luck finding a part number.  Can anyone help please?  Is for a 1986 V6.

Thanks.

[Fierofool]

I thought Rodney was the one who provided that repair kit.

For the balancer, can you go back against the vendor through your credit card company or whomever you purchased it through?  In any case, contest it through the method you used to pay for it. 

While searching The Fiero Store, I saw they listed the harmonic balancer.  It looks like it's for a 3.4 by its description.  Says you'd have to have a new timing mark cut into it. 

[PK]

Imported from US so they will say "sure send it back for a refund" but that won't cover the cost to post back and the import duty/costs so it's just not worth it sadly.  This is the problem I had with rock auto... By the time the problem has arrived here it's too costly to fix.  Also the seller is clearly dishonest as the sealing surface was wrapped/hidden and clearly not new....sneaky.

I think I have found the kit.. made by national.  Its "national 5000" and seems that the oversize is so small that the standard seal can be used.

Didn't even know Rodney did a kit.

[Fierofool]

I had searched Rodney's site and couldn't find it, but forgot to indicate that fact. 

I would certainly leave a bad review for that seller.  My wife once bought a refurbished laptop online and when she got it, it was filthy, and was likely one of the earliest laptops ever produced and had a very old version of Windows installed.  The power cord was broken and the screen was scratched.  One key was missing.  The man refused to take it back unless she left a good review for him.  She kept it and gave him a bad review.

[GTRS Fiero]

Back in the '80's, I had a laptop made by Zenith.  It was not even able to run Windows 1.0.  It was an OK laptop.  It was a major step up from the suitcase computers.  Any laptop that could run Windows was well down the road.

[TopNotch]

I used to work for Heath Company (Benton Harbor, MI.). The computer business of Heath was bought by Zenith, and became Zenith Data Systems. Later Zenith Data Systems was bought by a French business named Groupe Bull. I would be interested in knowing the particulars of your Zenith lap top.

[GTRS Fiero]

I'll send you an email.

[PK]

Attempt 2 at HB sleeving went fine!  Only diff was that I used loctite 638 rather than RTV and applied to the initial contact point of both sleeve and HB.  No heat or cold used this time either.

Next to cut the new timing mark......

[Fierofool]

Do you know or do they know exactly where to cut the mark?  I wouldn't necessarily use the old balancer as a guide.  When I had one cut for drewbdo, I used Raydar's suggestion that it was about -7* TDC. 

I guess it would be possible with the balancer installed to put a dial indicator into the spark plug hole on #1 to find exact TDC, mark the 0 position on the balancer and cut from that. 

I got this from a post by Orief on PFF.

Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com)    MSG #4, 08-18-2004 10:08 AM
         The harmonic balancers will fit for ANY 2.8L V-6. But as stated the timing marks are on opposite sides.
I am using a GM Performance Parts balancer. To use one you need to turn the engine by hand until the #1 cylinder is at TDC. You can get close by turning the engine until the distributor rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug wire. Then look at the balancer. There should be a groove at about the 2:00 o'clock position. Get a good ruler and measure 4.600" to the left of this mark, Scribe a line and paint it white. This is the Fiero timing mark. You could also just mark the new balancer at all 3 places before you put it on (the balancers have a groove every 120*) Just mark a new line 4.600" to the left of each mark and it will line up for the Fiero timing scale.
GM Performance Parts also sells a performance balancer that has the outer ring pinned to the inner ring so it doesn't shift with age. It's available thru PAW or GM. The GM P/N is 14085401 (PAW uses the GM part number as well)

[PK]

Great timing FF.

I have just bolted the old and "new" HBs together.. the drilled holes match up exactly (so the chunk of weight remains unexplained on some and not others).

I have some very good bits of calibrated measuring kit and decided to check with oriefs 4.600".  I had no idea if, as my HB has walked inbound, if it would also have drifted off fore/aft in terms of timing.  Anyways I make it bang on 4.6" old vs "new" timing marks.

Now need someone with a nice cutty machine to transfer marking from old to "new"! 

Edit: also worth noting the 4.6" measurement is following the circumference and not a straight line measurement.

[Fierofool]

Any competent machine shop with a vertical milling machine would be able to do the cut.  All it would really need is a vice mounted on the bed to keep the balancer perfectly vertical.  Indicate it in, then travel the bed to make the cut with a small end mill. 

And yes, the measurement is following the circumference of the balancer.  While you're having it cut, see if they have a degree wheel and find out what degree the cut is off the center of the keyway. 

[PK]

I never did make it to the Bentley boys but have asked them to cutty new timing mark.

I will work out the angle you mentioned with some of that maths stuff tomorrow if I have time.

[PK]

I didn't have time.

I did however put my bolted concoction of HBs on a lathe today...haaaaaa.  About 3/16" run off on the old one.  Very lucky to still have my sump and timing chest

Someone much more skilled than I made up a key to perfectly fit keyway and align HBs. Then cut matching timing mark.

Just to paint slot white now and install....after water pump.

[Fierofool]

When I did my 3.4 and replaced the balancer, my partner turned a piece of steel down to the diameter of the crankshaft.  He then cut a keyway slot in it.  Once that was done, the old and new balancers were slid onto the makeshift shaft and the timing mark was tracked from the old onto the new.  He then clamped the new balancer into a fixture on the milling machine and cut the new timing mark.  I was lucky that my old balancer hadn't slipped.  It was replaced just because the old one was just that---OLD!

[GTRS Fiero]

What happened to your old balancer?